Offseason: Rules you'd like to see changed

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- Offseason: Rules you'd like to see changed

mikeyfan1599 Reputation:99 Level:Superstar Since:Aug 15, 2006
	November 16, 2009 6:10 pm Score: 124
	Ok, this is a thread hopefully we can use to discuss Rule changes for the entire off season we'd like to see changed. The only thing I ask is that the rule(s) you propose be realistic. Nothing like ban this manufacture or that manufacture, but rules you'd think would be for the betterment of the sport. I'm sure there are going to be plenty who want to see the 43 fastest quailfiers get in the race. But remember it was never that way. Even before the top 35 rule only 35 slots were filled during qualifying and the remaining 8 slots were provisionals. Anyway here is my first rule change I'd like to see. How to deal with the start and parks. There were several times when a team that wanted to try to compete for the entire race got sent home by a driver that made 5 to 10 laps and parked the car. So here is my proposal. When teams show up to the track they have to declare if they are going to try to do the whole race or just start and park. Those that say they are going to do the whole race must then buy enough sets of tires, non-refundable, to run practice, qualifying and the whole race. If there are less than 43 teams trying to compete then all teams who declare they are completing the race will make the race whether or not it is 35 or 40, Then the Start and parks can compete for the remaining slots. This should help new teams who want to compete a chance to race and build their teams up to a competitive nature. While the remaining start and park cars compete on who will get the last place money. How do you feel about this rule change and what change(s) do you have?
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- Offseason: Rules you'd like to see changed

brnelson81 Reputation:99 Level:Superstar Since:Sep 10, 2006
	November 16, 2009 6:40 pm Score: 113
	Simple, if you want to run in the race whether it be he entire race or for 10 laps, do one thing, have a car that is faster than the other go or go homers. If you can't do that then you do not deserve to race. Think about it, if you force teams to lease enough tired before the race and they didn't make it then they would be wrecked financially and may not attempt another race during the year. And really, does it matter if the 5 worst cars are on the track or in the garage? I mean really does anyone notice that NASCAR has 39 cars out on the track after lap 10 or 43? I really doubt it.
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- Offseason: Rules you'd like to see changed

Section_725 Reputation:99 Level:Superstar Since:Aug 16, 2006
	November 16, 2009 6:53 pm Score: 116
	How about changing up the final 10 races of the season so it isn't full of tracks that one driver excels at? Changing the points system to award more points and more money to the race winner. This way drivers will be more apt to go for the win than to settle for 2nd. Change the way the standings are set for the chase. The points leader gets a certain amount, say 5,000, 2nd gets 4,990, 3rd gets 4,980, 4th gets 4,970, etc... continue this on through the 12th spot, then add in the 10 points for wins during the season. You will then be rewarding those who did well in the first 26 races, plus reward winning.
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- Offseason: Rules you'd like to see changed

Duff_44 Reputation:93 Level:All-Star Since:Nov 26, 2006
	November 16, 2009 7:45 pm Score: 105
	Here's what I'd like to see changed: 1) Revised top 35 (now 30) rule Top 30 cars qualify on speed Next 12 spots go to the next 12 cars in owner's points not already in (puts emphasis on staying in the top 12 during the regular season, as these teams would be the only ones guaranteed a starting spot) Last spot is for the fastest non-qualfied car, or past champion not already in 2) Reduce past-champions provisionals to 3 per driver 3) Drivers in the top 30 of Sprint Cup points cannot run in the Nationwide or Truck series (doesn't exclude an up-and-comer from running both, but limits the top drivers from double-dipping) 4) 70% rule: Cars not competing 70% of the race distance are ineligible for prize money (requires that teams make a legitimate effort to compete, not start and park) 5) Any car repaired from a prior accident which drops debris is parked for the remainder of the race. 6) Rain-shortened races must go to 70% completion, rather than 50%. That's all I can think of at the moment which aren't schedule related.
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- Offseason: Rules you'd like to see changed

ILL55INI Reputation:95 Level:Superstar Since:Nov 28, 2007
	November 16, 2009 8:14 pm Score: 120
	I don't think you guys should make a huge deal with the start and parks. The reason why they start and park is b/c they only have 1 car and if they race the whole race, then they could damage it and they are effectively screwing themselves. Also, without sponsorship, which is what happens to the start and parks, they can't risk getting their cars damaged. All they are doing is obtaining additional funding in order to build more race cars and to hopefully attract sponsorship. It's more of a problem in the Nationwide Series than in the Cup series but to me, if you outqualify the person, you deserve to be in the race. Most of those who don't qualify are also start and park cars anyways. Very rarely do we see a legitimately good car not make the race. The newer rules ensure this happens. What I'd like to see changed: 1. Have more night races during the Chase-we discussed this earlier but clearly, NASCAR cannot compete with the NFL and should try to find ways to have more races on Saturday night, in primetime, where the viewership will be larger. 2. Have more different kinds of tracks in the Chase(not just cookie cutter tracks)-won't happen next year, but one can only hope we'd see a road course added into the Chase and another short track. 3. Give Iowa Speedway a race, take a race away from California(cause those fans don't know how to pack a racetrack). 4. Lower the races in both Cali and Pocono from 500 to 400 miles. 5. Drivers who run full-time in Sprint Cup can only run a maximum of 16-20 races in the Nationwide Series-this will give the younger drivers more opportunities to run more races and give new people an opportunity to showcase themselves(as Brad Keselowski has been able to do). Nationwide was at its best in the early 2000s when Kevin Harvick, Greg Biffle, Bobby Hamilton Jr, Scott Riggs, Brian Vickers, David Green, Jason Keller, Martin Truex Jr, and Jeff Green all had successes. Although some of those guys were also full time cup regulars, there weren't many of them in the series. Today, it's just ridiculous. 6. If you are more than 1 lap down(2+ laps down) you should not be given a lucky dog-Yea, I know, it would suck, but hey, fair is fair. It doesn't seem right that drivers get multiple laps back and then go on and have a good day. Just doesn't seem like they earn it. 7. Get new announcers. I'm sick of listening to Dr. Jerry Punch. I think he's knowledgable but he can get really annoying to listen to. FOX in my opinion has a good announce team. The difference between Mike Joy and Jerry Punch is Mike Joy doesn't repeat phrases. We always hear Jerry Punch repeating the same phrases every race, it's like I have to hear him saying the same stuff every week.
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- Offseason: Rules you'd like to see changed

mikeyfan1599 Reputation:99 Level:Superstar Since:Aug 15, 2006
	November 16, 2009 8:21 pm Score: 105
	Section, you have some good thought But I'm going to tackle Duff's first. 1. Dull your top 30 rules is ok, but the problem I have with the Next 12 is that as soon as Daytona is over with you have your 42 cars locked into a race. So basically there is only 1 slot up for grabs and if I hire a past champion to qualify the car like Bill Elliott then I have the top 43 locked and the rest need not show up. I know your going to say they have to qualify in the top 30 but look at the qualifying efforts of these teams most are less than the top 30. 2. See above for PC provisionals. 3. I understand and sort of agree, I'd like to see the rule be 1 and 2 year cup drivers can compete full time in the Nationwide race but any driver with more than 2 years in Cup are limited to 10 races per season. 4. There would be so many admendments to this rule, because your saying if a team gets in an accident in the first 10 laps and cannot repair the car they do not get paid, What about the car that Blows an engine? to many factors for this to work that I can see. 5. This I agree with, if you cannot repair the car enough to keep parts from falling off then you should park it. 6. Again, all other sports the rule is 1/2 way, cannot see this changing. you have the fans to think about. Also, I have heard numerous drivers and crew chiefs say once you get halfway through a race if the race was stopped, most of these cars would blow an engine the next day if you tried to re-crank them. The reason is the heat they build up then the cool down then having to get them back up to temp is too much for the engine and driver train to take. That is why the start and park only run a few laps so they can protect their engines. Duff, i love the thoughts and some will agree but I have to show another view on your suggestions.
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- Offseason: Rules you'd like to see changed

mikeyfan1599 Reputation:99 Level:Superstar Since:Aug 15, 2006
	November 16, 2009 8:33 pm Score: 108
	Ok, ILL, actually I like most of your ideas. I like the night races for the chase and definetly think they should change the tracks in the chase up. I say have a drawing for the 10 races in the chase but you have to do it 3 years in advance. You just can't come out and say this year the chase will be at these 10 tracks etc. Reason, the fans who buy the tickets usually plan their vacations around a race and they may have their vacations on the books that far in advance to make sure they get time off. On the Nationwide series. I think if you have 1 or 2 years in the Cup series, you can run the full season. After that 10 races and only 2 of the top 5 paying races, but not the top 2, per owner. In other words if Joe Gibbs has 2 cars running and they have Kyle and Denny driving then he can have both of them at Daytona and another race but he can't race Kyle in this race, Denny in number 2, Joey in number 3 etc. On the lucky dog, I disagree with you there why? Lets say you come into the pits, especially on a short track and a caution comes out before all teams pit you can be 3 laps or more down. and be able to get to the Lucky dog. The one thing I like about the double file restart is teams 2 laps down can gamble and take the wave around get back to 1 lap down and hope for a quick caution come in change tires and fuel and then via for the lucky dog.
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- Offseason: Rules you'd like to see changed

SpikesGator51 Reputation:96 Level:Superstar Since:Nov 30, 2008
	November 16, 2009 9:10 pm Score: 109
	Great ideas by all, Hawks and Mikey are nailing the racing rules that Id like to see, so I will tackle rules for the cars Id like to change. No gear rule, run what you think your engine can take. Give adjustability back to the front fenders and the rear quarter panels. Also run any shock package you want at any track( single shocks, no doubles ), also no mandated spring package at any track including Talladega and Daytona, and let them shift if they want to at Pocono, some would some won't, but let the teams have the option to chose, let the crew chiefs and engineers help to beat the 48 insteed of trying to beat the 48 with what he does because the rules are so tight. Take the wing off the cars at Talladega and Daytona only, go to a regular spoiler at those two tracks only, The wing works well everywhere else. Also take the plate back to 1" inch the way it was in 1990, Dale Sr. could pull away from a draft that year at Talladega and the speeds were kept around 195 to 200, At 212 or over might would be to fast for todays stupid drivers, but at 200 handling would matter and the field would get seperated, I think it would work, and at 200 the drivers would not be bump drafting in the corners because they would respect the speed. And with the regular spoiler if a car got turned around the roof flaps would set it back down on the ground. Adjustability is what is needed on these cars and just a few small things mentioned would make a world of difference, the racing would be awesome, because some in the garage would say, Dude that engine isn't holding up with that gear under it ! LOL. Spikes.
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- Offseason: Rules you'd like to see changed

Hawks N Cards Reputation:99 Level:Superstar Since:Dec 7, 2006
	November 16, 2009 11:12 pm Score: 89
	Great ideas by all, Hawks and Mikey are nailing the racing rules that Id like to see Thank you. Huh??? I haven't posted anything yet but everyone who knows me is aware of what is coming. You'll have to wait until tomorrow.
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- Offseason: Rules you'd like to see changed

bored at work Reputation:95 Level:Superstar Since:Aug 16, 2006
	November 17, 2009 12:42 am Score: 117
	I think the points leader after 26 races should get first pick of pit stall for the final 10, that way you get something good for having them take your big point lead away. I'm pretty sure they had a rule where the defending series champion would get first pick at every race the following year, they did away with it in early 90's, so let's make pole sitter pick pit 2nd. I would also like to see 5 or 10 points for winning a pole. Especially if we give 5 points to someone just because they don't pit and everyone else does under caution. I think qualifying races for the go or go homers would be entertaining too, like the Winston Open or B-features at a short track. That way you take the cars who are fastest over the course of 20 laps rather than 1. Maybe would weed out the start and park guys too. That way Scott Speed would know what a checkered flag looks like. And Joe Nemechek and Dave Blaney might remember too. I guess they wouldn't be able to contend for a pole, but make them get into the top 35 or 30 to have to do that. I think they should make the schedule more varied from year to year. Writer Matt Mclaughlin mentioned this a long time ago but maybe keep going to the biggest/prestigious races twice a year (Daytona, Bristol, Richmond, Atlanta, etc) but put some on a 3-year rotation where you race them just 4 or 5 times, instead of 6 (twice every year). For example, right now Pocono, Dover, and New Hampshire have 2 races a year. But for one season, race at Pocono and Dover twice and NH once; next year race at NH and Dover twice and Pocono once; then NH and Pocono twice and Dover once. That frees up a race date that would make it easier to fit a new track in. Some tracks could get 1 race in 2 of the years and 2 races in just one year, that could free up a date too. Then we could go to Iowa or Kentucky every once in awhile. Maybe throw in a historic race track once a year, (like Nashville short track one year, Rockingham the next, then North Wilkesboro, etc.) Those are my serious rules. Now just for fun I was thinking of some more. Instead of double-file restarts, how about triple-file restarts. F-1 is banning refueling so how about the same in Cup. How big would the fuel cell have to be to run 600 miles at Charlotte without adding fuel? (Nevermind that having 200 gallons of fuel would be a bit of a safety hazard...) Only the top 2 drivers on a team can score points. (Gordo wins, Mark 2nd, Jimmie finishes 3rd in the race...sorry Jimmie no points for you) Let's run a couple races clockwise. Make the driver get out and change his own tires.
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- Offseason: Rules you'd like to see changed

D2Moo Reputation:99 Level:Superstar Since:Dec 7, 2007
	November 17, 2009 2:54 am Score: 111
	Evening everyone. I don't think there is a whole lot I would change at this time. The reason the rules get so convoluted is because everyone wnats to change them every year. Racers and fans can never sit back and relax. We get rules changes to even the "playing field" in NASCAR because as soon as one team or manufacturer gets an edge, everyone else complains about it. So NASCAR bends backwards to level the playing field, then gets hammered because they do by the same drivers who moaned and whined for the change originally.
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- Offseason: Rules you'd like to see changed

D2Moo Reputation:99 Level:Superstar Since:Dec 7, 2007
	November 17, 2009 3:00 am Score: 83
	Ooops, didn't finish. Even feeling that way, I would like to see a few more night races here and there if it works out.
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- Offseason: Rules you'd like to see changed

mikeyfan1599 Reputation:99 Level:Superstar Since:Aug 15, 2006
	November 17, 2009 7:01 am Score: 89
	Spikes, I like what you came up with. I agree let the crew chief earn his money by messaging the car here and there and having to thinkg about what spring and shock package they could use. Speaking of shocks I would like to see them go back to off the shelf shocks. Now that would be a package that would seperate cars on the plate tracks, more so at Daytona then at 'Dega. Also, REMOVE THOSE DANG BUMP STOPS! or at least make them optional.
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- Offseason: Rules you'd like to see changed

bluejay39 Reputation:99 Level:Superstar Since:Mar 14, 2007
	November 17, 2009 7:53 am Score: 110
	Also, REMOVE THOSE DANG BUMP STOPS! or at least make them optional. Mikey - That's the first one I thought of. I just browsed through the responses but a lot of good ones from what I saw. I don't have a lot of time right now but another thing I mentioned on another thread was get rid of the rule that says the leader has to be the first one to cross the start finish line on restarts. If the leader is sleeping, spins the tires or misses a gear when the green flag waves too bad!...bluejay
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- Offseason: Rules you'd like to see changed

EauRouge130R Reputation:97 Level:Superstar Since:May 25, 2008
	November 17, 2009 10:59 am Score: 102
	Agree with the bump stops as well. Rule changes that I would like NASCAR to make (as opposed to contractual scheduling changes I'd like to see): Bump stops - gone. Free Lap Back - gone. This rule is the most moronic creation racing has ever seen. Past Champion Provisional - gone. This "gift" to Petty, then DW, then Terry Labonte needs to go. It's as outdated as the drivers that need to use it. Qualifying - All 43 spots are determined based on time/speed. Top 35 rule - gone. See above.
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- Offseason: Rules you'd like to see changed

azmohave Reputation:96 Level:Superstar Since:Mar 13, 2009
	November 17, 2009 5:46 pm Score: 118
	Spikes - Great thoughts, I have been screaming adjustability all year. This car will be a great race car ala the Truck Series if they let them back in the tool box with Gear, Spring and Shock Choice and Adjustments. If the car doesn't run over the scales or through the room of doom properly withold ALL of their race points and purse from the race, yes that's a big ZERO for their weekend. As far as Park and Starts go I'd say if you have done it and you do it your third time, keep the race car at home and give someone else a shot at making the race and making a little money to pay their bills. Three srikes, you're out for two races. The Chase - All teams and cars are in the Chase after point reset. It will help all teams sell sponsorship because as it is now only the chasers get the T.V. coverage unless your leading a race. Switch the race tracks every two or three years or at least cut the 1 1/2 - 2 mile tracks down to 4.
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- Offseason: Rules you'd like to see changed

kinik Reputation:98 Level:Superstar Since:Sep 13, 2006
	November 17, 2009 8:42 pm Score: 71
	With 25 laps to go the lap counter is turned off under yellow.
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- Offseason: Rules you'd like to see changed

CrazyIvan2 Reputation:96 Level:Superstar Since:Apr 14, 2009
	November 19, 2009 12:20 am Score: 133
	While I'm finally getting used to the chase, (It IS their show after all.) but I believe I've been vindicated in the sense that artificially trying to tighten up championships never works in any series. (Can I say Jimmie Johnson?) I don't ask for wholesale changes. 1. Take the chase back to ten cars. Ten has a good ring too it. 2. When the regular season is over the regular season "winner" starts the chase tied with whoever the win leader is for the season after the points are reset. That's his reward for being the point leader. 3. No lucky dog. Earn your lap back the old fashion way. By passing the leader. 4. More points difference between finishing first and second. Enough that the race winner leaves that day having received the most points regardless of laps lad and whatever other reasons they award points. 5. The last one depends on whether you're a fan of restrictor plate racing or not. Get rid of the matching bumpers and make the aero parts of the bumpers more fragile not stronger. Then let the drivers race and don't interfere. If the bumper breaks when it's hit hard enough bump drafting will go away on its own. If they don't want to do that then let'em race and let them decide when to bump draft and when not too. Their big boys.
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- Offseason: Rules you'd like to see changed

CrazyIvan2 Reputation:96 Level:Superstar Since:Apr 14, 2009
	November 19, 2009 12:25 am Score: 106
	Oh, and I agree with whoever said the past champin provisional should go also. The did it because people wanted to see Richard race and they were afraid attendance would drop because of it. They may have even been right. Now however I don't think attendance is going to change a bit and there top 35 rule is in place which didn't exist back then..
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- Offseason: Rules you'd like to see changed

BucBrett Reputation:97 Level:Superstar Since:Aug 17, 2006
	November 19, 2009 12:00 pm Score: 125
	My proposal has to do with the qualifying process of one race in particular- the Daytona 500. I loved the old format of qualifying. The front row pole day qualifying is still the same, but the Duel 150's (Side note: Twin 125's made more sense since 125 miles is 1/4 distance of the Daytona 500) need to be changed. What they've become essentially is two races to determine which 4 go-or-go-homers make the race. Seems like a lot of racing and risk of tearing up equipment for little reward. And, since qualifying spots matter very little at restrictor plate tracks, the finishing order matters very little to teams in the top 35 in points. I used to take off of school or work every year on the Thursday of the Twin 125's as it was one of my favorite days of racing. I believe they can make these races exciting again simply by going back to the old system, even if it requires bringing back the old provisional system for just one race. Go back to having the top 14 cars in each Duel qualifying for the 500, and fill out the rest of the field via qualifying times and provisionals.
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