Jordan is no Gretzky and Robinson

- Jordan is no Gretzky and Robinson

RudeMood19 Reputation:97 Level:Superstar Since:Jun 28, 2007
	November 14, 2009 2:47 pm Score: 137
	Gretzky had his number retired league-wide because it is clear he was not only the greatest player ever to play the game, but he helped hockey expand and be popular in other regions in the US during his career and for a while was considered the face of the game for his marketability. Robinson broke the baseball colour barrier. 'Nuff said. Jordan was the best player of his generation but he didn't do as much for his sport like Gretzky and Robinson did. He did a lot, absolutely no doubt about it, but his importance to the game of basketball was less than Gretzky's importance to the game of hockey and Robinson's to the sport of baseball. That being said, I think the number 23 should be 'unofficially' retired by all NBA players, similar to Mario Lemieux's #66 in the NHL. No one wears it. And no one should wear it. Jordan was a legend and should be honoured for such.
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- Jordan is no Gretzky and Robinson

McNutty Reputation:79 Level:Pro Since:Jun 5, 2008
	November 14, 2009 5:32 pm Score: 64
	Sometimes it's better to just speak on what you know.
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- Jordan is no Gretzky and Robinson

spelling bee Reputation:92 Level:All-Star Since:Oct 22, 2007
	November 14, 2009 5:36 pm Score: 45
	Good post, Rudemood.
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- Jordan is no Gretzky and Robinson

Indians33Fan Reputation:95 Level:Superstar Since:Feb 18, 2009
	November 14, 2009 5:56 pm Score: 85
	A team retiring a number is fine. But an entire league, no way. The NHL and NLB are wrong for doing it. It should be up to every team to make that choice. No 1 player is bigger than the league they played in. Jordan was a great player, but Bill Russell had nearly 2x the number of rings, do we retire #6 also?? If every team did it on their own, that would be okay, but no way the league should do it.
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- Jordan is no Gretzky and Robinson

MWRedskins4 Reputation:96 Level:Superstar Since:Oct 11, 2006
	November 14, 2009 7:38 pm Score: 77
	i understand why Robinson's number was retired, it wasnt just how great he played, but also by what he did for the others who followed him, he paved the way for his race in baseball.
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- Jordan is no Gretzky and Robinson

teambobo Reputation:99 Level:Superstar Since:Nov 13, 2006
	November 14, 2009 8:07 pm Score: 139
	Both Robinson and Gretzky transcended their respective sports to levels that would not be reached without them. Robinson clearly broke the racial barrier and opened the door for minorities to play a "whites only" sport. His contribution to the game was huge and his number being retired is proper. Gretzky popularized the sport of ice hockey in the United States to levels that would have been unattainable without him. Furthermore, Gretzky dominated hockey far more than Jordan ever dominated basketball. I know some may argue this, so here's the only stat you need to know. Gretzky has more assists (1,963) than the next closest player has points (goals AND assists) (1,887: Messier). Gretzky's point total: 2,857...that's right, almost 1,000 more than the next closest player. Enough said.
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- Jordan is no Gretzky and Robinson

nyjetsjames Reputation:95 Level:Superstar Since:Aug 20, 2009
	November 14, 2009 9:24 pm Score: 78
	Then we need to retire Wilt's number 13. He scored 100 and forced the NBA to change many of rules. Oh don't forget number 10 in soccer. Pele was great. (yes I looked this one up)
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- Jordan is no Gretzky and Robinson

Crunch--Time Reputation:92 Level:All-Star Since:Oct 20, 2009
	November 14, 2009 9:48 pm Score: 110
	There is only 1 athlete that I think deserves to have his number retired league wide and that would be Wayne Gretzky. This guys totally blew the sport away. Gretzky won 8 consecutive MVP awards in a row and 10 total. He has nearly every record in hockey and he blew the numbers away beyond belief. I watched Jordan fail miserably in the 80s. Yeah I know he didn't have the talent around him at that time but even during the Bulls best years his numbers were very comparable with other greats like Bird, Magic, Kareem etc.....For that matter Wilt dominated the game more so than MJ.
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- Jordan is no Gretzky and Robinson

Chitownjguy Reputation:49 Level:Rookie Since:Sep 10, 2009
	November 14, 2009 9:49 pm Score: 118
	Jordan was Gretzky VERBATIM you idiot. They both completely dominated their respective sports and Michael Jordan became the most well known global sports ICON of all time. Also Jordan played in an era of basketball with some of the greats of all time. There is no big men in the league now like David Robinson, Hakeem Olajuwon and Patrick Ewing. Charles Barkely, John Stockton and Karl Malone all never won championships in their careers because of Jordan, and Olajuwon never would have if Jordan didn't experiment with baseball. And sure, Jordan had Scottie Pippen there most of the way but Gretzky played on the same line as some of the game's all time greats in Edmonton. I won't compare Jordan with Jackie Robinson because it's apples to oranges. But Jordan is to basketball what Gretzky is to hockey. Jordan prematurely ended the reign of Larry Bird, Isiah Thomas and Magic Johnson because it was his time and he wasn't going to let them stand in his way. The NHL can retire 99 throughout the league if they want to, Gary Bettman's done plenty of worse things to drive his league into the ground, but I don't think Gretzky did anything worthy of having his number retired through the entire league. That honor should be reserved for someone who changes the social face of their sport the way Robinson did. So LeBron's heart might be in the right place, but the NBA has no obligation to MJ to retire 23 league-wide, the same way Gretzky didn't deserve that honor for his 99.
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- Jordan is no Gretzky and Robinson

GAME OVER Reputation:96 Level:Superstar Since:Dec 9, 2006
	November 14, 2009 10:32 pm Score: 50
	Chitownjguy VERY well said!!!
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- Jordan is no Gretzky and Robinson

irishjohnny Reputation:93 Level:All-Star Since:Mar 16, 2009
	November 14, 2009 11:39 pm Score: 47
	Chitownguy has it right! One of the best replies I've seen in awhile!
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- Jordan is no Gretzky and Robinson

teambobo Reputation:99 Level:Superstar Since:Nov 13, 2006
	November 15, 2009 4:22 am Score: 137
	Chitownjguy, thanks for calling me an idiot, very intelligent. I made a very legitimate point and your response is "idiot". My point was that Gretzky dominated the game of hockey FAR beyond the level that Jordan did with basketball. I have great respect for both athletes, but Jordan doesn't even compare to Gretzky when it comes to all time scoring. Gretzky was also a prodigy from a very young age.....find me a basketball prodigy that can fulfill his expected talent and you will have an argument. Last time I checked, Gretzky wasn't cut from his freshman team. Bottom line, there are players in the NBA that will exceed Jordan's accomplishments, but there is nobody that will ever exceed the accomplishments of Gretzky. I won't resort to name calling to prove my point, just check the stats and history
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- Jordan is no Gretzky and Robinson

teambobo Reputation:99 Level:Superstar Since:Nov 13, 2006
	November 15, 2009 4:23 am Score: 137
	Chitownjguy, thanks for calling me an idiot, very intelligent. I made a very legitimate point and your response is "idiot". My point was that Gretzky dominated the game of hockey FAR beyond the level that Jordan did with basketball. I have great respect for both athletes, but Jordan doesn't even compare to Gretzky when it comes to all time scoring. Gretzky was also a prodigy from a very young age.....find me a basketball prodigy that can fulfill his expected talent and you will have an argument. Last time I checked, Gretzky wasn't cut from his freshman team. Bottom line, there are players in the NBA that will exceed Jordan's accomplishments, but there is nobody that will ever exceed the accomplishments of Gretzky. I won't resort to name calling to prove my point, just check the stats and history
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- Jordan is no Gretzky and Robinson

teambobo Reputation:99 Level:Superstar Since:Nov 13, 2006
	November 15, 2009 4:23 am Score: 139
	Chitownjguy, thanks for calling me an idiot, very intelligent. I made a very legitimate point and your response is "idiot". My point was that Gretzky dominated the game of hockey FAR beyond the level that Jordan did with basketball. I have great respect for both athletes, but Jordan doesn't even compare to Gretzky when it comes to all time scoring. Gretzky was also a prodigy from a very young age.....find me a basketball prodigy that can fulfill his expected talent and you will have an argument. Last time I checked, Gretzky wasn't cut from his freshman team. Bottom line, there are players in the NBA that will exceed Jordan's accomplishments, but there is nobody that will ever exceed the accomplishments of Gretzky. I won't resort to name calling to prove my point, just check the stats and history
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- Jordan is no Gretzky and Robinson

Crunch--Time Reputation:92 Level:All-Star Since:Oct 20, 2009
	November 15, 2009 8:04 am Score: 114
	Jordan prematurely ended the reign of Larry Bird, Isiah Thomas and Magic Johnson because it was his time and he wasn't going to let them stand in his way. Chitownjguy....Honestly...please don't make foolish comments. First, Jordan never beat Bird in the playoffs and his lifetime record vs Bird was 11-23. The Celtics reign ended due to old age, injuries and the loss of Reggie Lewis and Len Bias. Isiah's Pistons beat Jordan's Bulls 3 years in a row in the playoffs and won back to back. What more do you want? When the Bulls finally did get past the Pistons Isiah missed close to 50 games that season with injury, several other Pistons were battling injury and not to mention they lost some key players to free agency. As for Magic, he was past his prime and showtime was over by the time MJ played Magic in the Finals. I'm not taking anything away from MJ because he was a great player (possibly the greatest ever), but there were other players comparable to him. There was nobody comparable to Gretzkey in his sport. Jordan was Gretzky VERBATIM you idiot. They both completely dominated their respective sports and Michael Jordan became the most well known global sports ICON of all time. You've made some of the dumbest comments I've seen on this thread so you have no right to call anyone names. If you knew anything about hockey, you would realize there is no comparison between Gretzkey and Jordan. Gretzkey owed his sport like no other athlete. He crushed the records beyond belief while winning every individual and team honor possible (including records). The fact that Wilt's numbers crush Jordan's should tell you that he wasn't alone in his sport. Heck, Bird, Magic, Oscar, Kareem etc....their prime seasons produced as good or better all around numbers than Jordan. When Gretzkey was prime there was nobody even close to him. but I don't think Gretzky did anything worthy of having his number retired through the entire league. Please open up a record book....Gretzkey owns hockey.....similar to the way Wilt owns the NBA record book.....only Gretzkey was way more successful. No hard feelings.
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- Jordan is no Gretzky and Robinson

MWRedskins4 Reputation:96 Level:Superstar Since:Oct 11, 2006
	November 15, 2009 10:00 am Score: 66
	in my view both Gretzkey and Jordan are very similar, both may go down as the best to ever play, but sadly for Jordan there are a bunch of players close who could also claim that, Gretzkey can't, in my book none should have their numbers retired league wide, as for Robinson, i understand why, he changed the game not only by his greatness, but what he did for his race, he changed the game that way, broke the color barrier, Robinson's number retired to me was a must.
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- Jordan is no Gretzky and Robinson

2thousand4 Reputation:94 Level:All-Star Since:Nov 4, 2006
	November 15, 2009 12:45 pm Score: 95
	What did Jordon do for basketball ? he made millions with Nike and endorsements but never gave anything back... Jordon doesnt deserve it,. by the way RudeMood. are you Canadian/French ? Mario didnt do anything for hockey... Gretszky like you said for his Marketability... exactly what Jordon did... if a number had to be retired in Hockey.. I would simply go with Orr's 4... or Hull, or even Howe... For Basketball,, esp in the late 70's the game was a MESS, when Bird and Johnson came they revived the sport brought out the best in their teammates.. live and died by the game... we owe it to the birds, johnsons, dumars, Erving, Malones, stocktons Kerrs,and all the other guys that made the difference in the intergrity of the game,, Jordon never did... look at him now... what an a**
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- Jordan is no Gretzky and Robinson

RudeMood19 Reputation:97 Level:Superstar Since:Jun 28, 2007
	November 16, 2009 3:07 am Score: 133
	RudeMood. are you Canadian/French ? I'm Canadian but I live in Toronto. Why do you ask? It's always funny when you see stereotypes on these message boards. They always give me a chuckle. Mario didnt do anything for hockey I said unofficially retired for Mario Lemieux. That means no one else should wear it and the league doesn't officially retire it. If some player wore #66, it would create a stir because Mario was one of the most most electrifying players of all time and that player, regardless of what he may do in his career, will never reach that level. And you're wrong about not doing anything for hockey. Pittsburgh wouldn't have a team today if it weren't for him. if a number had to be retired in Hockey.. I would simply go with Orr's 4... or Hull, or even Howe... Orr, no. Hull, no. Howe, no. Orr - amazing player, top 5 of all time, but if they were to retire his number, the criteria for league-wide number retirements becomes unclear. Hull - no way. I don't see the logic here. Howe - wasn't even the best player in the league in his prime, that would go to Maurice Richard. Howe played into his 50s. If Chris Chelios plays into his 50s in the NHL, does he deserve to have his # retired? What did Howe do during the 1960s? or the 1970s? Howe is in the top 5 players of all time too, but if Howe has his # retired, a similar argument can be made for Mark Messier.
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