Address the Position: Second Base

- Address the Position: Second Base

vikes5228 Reputation:96 Level:Superstar Since:Jun 30, 2008
	October 30, 2009 8:48 pm Score: 199
	Okay, I finally have some time to get to second base. The Twins have about 5 people in the organization who can play second base. Alexi Casilla, Nick Punto, Matt Tolbert, Brenden Harris, and Steve Tolleson and probably another 1 or 2 minor leaguers. No one on that list seems to likely to have a great season next year. Alexi Casilla - He was supposed to be the second baseman for the forseeable future. His first year he did a great job, batting over .300 and a very reliable glove in the field. He was was hopefully going to pick up right there this last year but obviously didn't. He had a couple of send-downs to AAA but did seem to do better after being called up. He still had a good glove but not much offensively. I would love for him to win the job next year and do good again. Nick Punto - Most people didn't like resigning Punto last offseason, but I did. He has his moments with the bat and is always a great defensive player. He picked it up offensively at the end of the season as well. I do not want him to be the starting 2B next year but if we improve at some other positions, I wouldn't have a problem with it. Matt Tolbert - Didn't do much with the opportunity after being called up. He was horrible batting but decent in the outfield. He then got sent back down. After the September call up, he was playing third base and did a pretty good job. His batting picked up and was pretty darn good defensively. Hopefully won't be starting next year, unless he improves over the offseason. Brenden Harris - He has never really been a starter, nor played much 2B with the Twins. He has primarily been SS and 3B when starters need a day off. He is probably the best hitter out of the 2B in the organization, but he is also one of the weakest defensively. He can have moments in the field, however. Steve Tolleson - I would doubt he makes the Opening Day roster, but I guess you never know. Don't really know much about him or the other IF in the minors but hopefully they can develop into great players. There aren't many free agents worth noting for second base, but the biggest ones available include: Ronnie Belliard (35), Alex Cora (34), Orlando Hudson (32), Akinori Iwamura (31), and Placido Palanco (34). I do not want Belliard, Cora, or Hudson. Palanco would be a good fix for a few years and he always seems to kill us when we play the Tigers. I would love for the Rays to decline Iwamura's option and the Twins make a run for him. Apparently management is very high on the guy as well. Hopefully either someone in the organization can step it up, we sign a free agent who actually helps, or make a trade for someone (not sure who is available though). Thoughts??
	See Replies · Reply · Permalink

- Address the Position: Second Base

vikes5228 Reputation:96 Level:Superstar Since:Jun 30, 2008
	October 30, 2009 8:55 pm Score: 116
	Forgot to add that Freddy Sanchez is also a free agent this year. He would probably be my favorite choice, if we can sign him for a fairly low contract. He is getting up there in years and isn't the best defensive player, but not horrible either. Management was trying to make a trade for him but didn't want to give up Aaron Hicks or Danny Valencia to get him. Probably a good decision.
	In Reply To... · Reply · Permalink

- Address the Position: Second Base

pete21_tc Reputation:95 Level:Superstar Since:May 14, 2009
	October 31, 2009 12:33 am Score: 147
	I don't expect the Twins to pick up anyone at second base that's worth more than 5 mil. I think the best option would be to bring up Danny Valencia and ditch Joe Crede. This produces money to pick up a more expensive player at second. I've said it before, I think Felipe Lopez form the Brewers would be a nice fit at second. He may be worth more than what the Twins are willing to pay him, but he's gotta be around the same price as Joe Crede. I would be content with Matt Tolbert palying second. If not, hope that Alexi Casilla improves his bat.
	In Reply To... · Reply · Permalink

- Address the Position: Second Base

Johnny Balls Reputation:98 Level:Superstar Since:Apr 10, 2008
	October 31, 2009 9:11 am Score: 138
	Punto will be at second next year case closed. Nobody wants his contract in a trade and we aren't going to sit someone making $4 million a year. His bat got better after the All-Star Break and his defense is always lights out. I love him at second and when we signed Cabrera and made him the full-time SS the Twins took off. We need a third baseman with Harris as the utility guy. I'm done waiting for Casilla and Tolbert. I really like Harris and his bat. But I highly doubt the Twins are going to pick up a second baseman until after Punto's contract expires next year. You watch, he'll hit .280 and the Twins will sign him to another 2 year deal after next year!
	See Replies · In Reply To... · Reply · Permalink

- Address the Position: Second Base

miller1181 Reputation:49 Level:Rookie Since:Sep 20, 2007
	October 31, 2009 10:45 am Score: 121
	Nick Punto is a complete Joke. He hit a blistering .256 after the all star break. It's really to bad the Twins orginization wasted money on this clown. I say bite the bullet on the 4 mil he gets next season and start over. Sometimes it's the best thing to do. We need more balance at the bottom of the lineup and this guy doesn't provide that at all. There are many options out there that are much better than this clown. His denfense is not lights out either. Like i say all the time he makes the basic plays he should and then he makes a great play and for everyone one of those great plays he makes a play that makes you say what the eff was that. I think so many peope have clouded minds about his d because all they remember are the few great plays he makes. It's a good thing theres a gold glove first baseman he throws to other wise he'd have 20 errors a year. Marlon Anderson NYM Ron Belliard LAD (B) Jamey Carroll CLE David Eckstein SD Orlando Hudson LAD (A) Akinori Iwamura * TB Omar Infante ATL Felipe Lopez MIL (A) Mark Loretta LAD Placido Polanco DET (A) Freddy Sanchez * SF (A) Here is a look at potential 2nd base options. Hudson and Sanchez are at the top of my list for guys to go after without question. Hudson can be had for decent money and I think you can get sanchez for 6-7 mil a year. Both would be a huge improvement over Nicky Punto
	In Reply To... · Reply · Permalink

- Address the Position: Second Base

Johnny Balls Reputation:98 Level:Superstar Since:Apr 10, 2008
	November 3, 2009 3:07 pm Score: 159
	Honestly I'd have to go with Placido Polanco. That guy kills the Twins every chance he gets. Talk about a professional hitter. I think he makes the pitcher throw an average of 10 pitches to him every at bat. I'd love to have he and Brandon Inge and Curtis Granderson on the Twins. I can't really say that about anyone else in the Central but maybe Sizemore and Greinke. The rest I could do without. How bad does it hurt Cleveland to see Sabathia and Lee doing all the damage in the World Series? Seriously, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that you win with pitching. When you have two elite guys, you sign them and play with whatever else you have left in the system. At the very least I think they'd have won the Central the last two years if they had Sabathia, Lee, Victor Martinez, Sizemore, Peralta, DeRosa, Casey Blake. What did they get by trading all those guys when they had the talent to win with what they had? I guess it's all about money and Cleveland didn't want to pony up. Let's hope the Twins don't go that route.
	See Replies · In Reply To... · Reply · Permalink

- Address the Position: Second Base

miller1181 Reputation:49 Level:Rookie Since:Sep 20, 2007
	November 3, 2009 6:55 pm Score: 124
	Brandon Inge? No way man. You want his .230 average and his 20 errors a year at 3rd base? Myself I would take my chances with Jow Crede again. He will give you the same offensive numbers and will play much more solid defense. Curtis Granderson? Once again I will take span in this spot. Yeah his power is nice but striking out 141 times in the leadoff spot and a crummy batting average. Again no thanks here. Polanco I do like and would a heck of a lot better than nicky punto out there. Indians....Now there is an organization that makes no sense.
	In Reply To... · Reply · Permalink

- Address the Position: Second Base

AFTwinsFan Reputation:99 Level:Superstar Since:Dec 1, 2007
	November 4, 2009 1:47 am Score: 144
	First off, Nick Punto needs to be the utility player. Sit his a$$ on the bench until someone needs a day off or Gardy needs a pinch runner. I do like Punto and his hard work and hustle and everything but if you look at his stats he is average defensively and when he plays everyday his batting average sucks more than a porn star. When he plays the utility role his average can be and has been in the .280 range. I don’t know what to say about Alexi Cassilia. He showed so much promise in 2008. He fielded well and hit pretty decent as well. As we all know 2009 wasn’t kind to him or him to the team. His fielding suffered and his average was just barely better than Punto’s. Matt Tolbert showed some promise in the field but again can’t hit his way out of a paper bag. He did hit marginally better playing 3b than he did playing 2b. I wouldn’t mind seeing Placido Polanco playing 2B for the Twins next season though my preference would be Orlando Hudson or Freddie Sanchez. Sanchez and Hudson are statiscally similar. Sanchez’s average is a little bit higher but their fielding percentage is pretty much equal. Sanchez did have some issues after moving to San Fran this season. Both would be an upgrade offensively from what the Twins have now and both have a few years left before age really starts to catch up to both of them. Iwamura is another option and again is better than the current options but similar to both Hudson and Sanchez. If the Twins could find a 2B a little bit younger, say 25 – 28 and just coming of age so-to-speak, with similar stats to Hudson, Sanchez, and Iwamura that would be really good. The Twins can give a little bit offensively power wise provided they get a 3B with some power who can also hit for average. The biggest issue facing the Twins is not defense but offense. How can any team take the Twins seriously when the bottom third of the order barely hit over .200. and the number 6 hitter is only marginally better.
	See Replies · In Reply To... · Reply · Permalink

- Address the Position: Second Base

vikes5228 Reputation:96 Level:Superstar Since:Jun 30, 2008
	November 4, 2009 8:54 am Score: 105
	Well no more chance of getting Iwamura. He was traded to the lowly Pirates last night. I don't know why the Pirates are trading for people in there 30's when there is no chance of them contending for another few years at least. They should continue to trade for younger people. They do have some promise actually, especially that CF they got in the Nate McLouth trade.
	See Replies · In Reply To... · Reply · Permalink

- Address the Position: Second Base

sethf00 Reputation:99 Level:Superstar Since:Sep 12, 2006
	November 5, 2009 9:40 am Score: 156
	Agreed with Nick Punto as the utility player. He may be making a bit too much money for that role, but he is good defensively to play 2B SS, and 3B. I don't understand the argument that he started to bat better after the All Star break. Batting better then the worst hitter in the league, which he was, is hardly a compliment. A nice guy, a good glove, and a nice pinch runner, bunter, whatever off of the bench. A good fill in guy to rest others, but that is it. I'd actually rather the Twins spend money on SS or 3B, whatever they can improve. Put some faith that Alexi Casilla regains his progress from two years ago. Is Brendan Harris still under contract? I wouldn't mind him there, to still platoon and be a better bat in the middle infield.
	In Reply To... · Reply · Permalink

- Address the Position: Second Base

Johnny Balls Reputation:98 Level:Superstar Since:Apr 10, 2008
	November 5, 2009 11:32 am Score: 151
	Miller, if you're going to say it about Punto, then say it about Crede. Brandon Inge had 84 RBI's and 27 homers, don't you think his fielding is enough to put up with with those stats? .230 batting average isn't good, but it was the same as Crede. The difference between Crede and Inge? Crede was out everytime he had a hang nail, while Inge played on a bum knee for the second part of the season. He gutted it out and would've been a hero in the Minnesota/Detroit play-in game had the Twins not come back to win it. When he was up at the end, I just knew he'd come through and he did. As for Curtis Granderson over Span. Yeah, Span has the average and I love his defense and how he's really come into his own. But Granderson is special. You can just see it. Whatever "It" is, he has it. The speed, the power, the positive community influence. He plays like those old-time clips you see of the great players with the high socks. Who would be more feared at the plate, Granderson or Span. I think we all know the answer to that. Span is above average, Granderson is an All-Star. Just my opinions though. PS: I hate the Yankees and you still can't tell me money buys happiness now that they've won their 27th World Series title. Good for them, the bunch of mercinaries. $70 Twins payroll vs $210 million payroll. Yeah, baseball doesn't really need a salary cap do they? Whatever.
	See Replies · In Reply To... · Reply · Permalink

- Address the Position: Second Base

hardball202 Reputation:88 Level:All-Star Since:Feb 28, 2008
	November 6, 2009 6:22 pm Score: 62
	Sanchez signed a two year contract with Giants.
	See Replies · In Reply To... · Reply · Permalink

- Address the Position: Second Base

gman64468 Reputation:97 Level:Superstar Since:Dec 23, 2006
	November 6, 2009 7:58 pm Score: 164
	I still like the idea of Orlando Hudson as our starting 2nd baseman for next year. I think he can be signed for 2 years at about 6 million a year. That's about the same money that Freddy Sanchez got when he resigned with the Giants. Like others have stated Nick Punto needs to be a reserve player and nothing more. The only way i would settle for having Punto or Alexi Casilla as our 2nd basemen is if we acquire a stud hitting 3rd basemen. I would like to see management package off Glen Perkins, Boof Bonser, and a minor leaguer for a good hitting 3rd basemen. Go Twins!
	In Reply To... · Reply · Permalink

- Address the Position: Second Base

Johnny Balls Reputation:98 Level:Superstar Since:Apr 10, 2008
	November 7, 2009 9:22 pm Score: 159
	I can't believe we're back to the "Nick Punto's the worst player in the world" argument again. He did start hitting better after the All-Star Break. Nothing wrong with a .250 hitter from the #9 guy in the lineup who is in there mostly for defense. He works the count and gets a good share of walks to set the table for Span and the rest. Saying that his defense is bad is just plain having a grudge. Saying he's the worst hitter in baseball is also wrong as well, especially after he was one of our best hitters against the Tigers and the Yankees in the playoffs. The Twins had absolutely no problem winning with Punto at second and hitting ninth. You want to shore up the team, find a power-hitting right-handed third baseman and get off Punto's @$$. News flash: HE'S NOT GETTING PAID TO HIT!! If we don't have enough fire power with Span, Hardy, Mauer, Morneau, Kubel, Young and Crede, then it's not defensive second baseman's fault. Maybe there should be more shots fired at Young's lack of power that he was supposed to provide. Giving up Bartlett and Garza costs the Twins a lot more than $4 million a year in wins alone. And what about Crede? How about we get on him a little for being out of the lineup 7 out of 10 times. And what about Gardy. It wasn't until September that he finalized a starting lineup and guess what? The Twins absolutely took off. I don't care if he went with Harris at short and Punto at second and Delmon in left. Whatever he would have decided would have been fine with me, just set a lineup so guys have a chance to be consistent. I don't want to be negative, but I am so tired of the Punto bashing. After what he did in the playoffs at second and at the plate and people still want to say he sucks. Then what about Kubel's 12 strikeouts during the series. Does he suck too? Funny how the announcers during the playoffs had nothing but great things to say about Punto, but Minnesota Twins fans have nothing but bad things to say about him. Why? Because he makes $4 million a year? Hate the Twins for giving him that, not Punto. If he was making $350,000.00 you'd be okay with him? As I've stated before, Mr. Nick Punto ain't gonna make or break your season. He's part of the intangibles that make the Twins great. He hustles, takes the extra base, lays down a bunt, is a leader in the clubhouse, works several 10 pitch count at bats in pressure games in the playoffs, etc. So he doesn't hit .300. So what, didn't we do a study of SS in the league (when he was SS at the time) and found that they all sucked for batting? What's J.J. Hardy the savior bringing over for a batting average? 20 homers and .230 BA? I'm sure his on base percentage is way up there. Give the Punto bashing a rest. Love him or hate him, he's ours for one more year at $4 million. Why fight it? It is what it is, focus on the third baseman and SP. We get those two in the off season and Nick 'freakin' Punto can hit .100 and we'll win. PS: Didn't mean to sound down on Delmon if I did. I think once he made it through the offseason crap, his mom dieing and then finally being in the starting lineup consistently he showed what he is capable of. I personally don't care if he doesn't have 30 homeruns. If he's a gap hitter and hits double after double then I'm fine with it. Why? Because most of the time a double will bring a guy home from first base. They all don't have to be homers to get the job done. A gapper to right center is just fine with me. I would like to see him consistently hit at least .280 though. .300 would be soooooooo nice.
	See Replies · In Reply To... · Reply · Permalink

- Address the Position: Second Base

MAK07 Reputation:91 Level:All-Star Since:Apr 22, 2008
	November 8, 2009 3:09 pm Score: 136
	Nick Punto is a career .248 hitter with an On Base Percentage of .322. Throw in his great defense and the fact that he's our 9 hitter, and I'll take that anyday; as long as the Twins make another big splash and get at least an above average 3B this offseason as well. Ryan Zimmerman is a stud and he'd look great, but we'd have to give up alot to get him. Adrian Beltre is a FA but he probably doesn't want to come here. We need to do something about 3B and SP and we'll be set for next year. Punto is our everyday starting 2B. Like it or not, you'll just have to deal with it.
	See Replies · In Reply To... · Reply · Permalink

- Address the Position: Second Base

miller1181 Reputation:49 Level:Rookie Since:Sep 20, 2007
	November 8, 2009 5:53 pm Score: 116
	I love how Nick Punto aint going to make or break your team argument. Yeah he might not but another guy in his position can make your team better and maybe be the make or break guy that hits for a little power, shows a good glove. A guy that improves your team. A true 2nd baseman with all around game. Sorry for wanting a guy to improve the team. The aint going to make or break your team argument is a joke.
	See Replies · In Reply To... · Reply · Permalink

- Address the Position: Second Base

MAK07 Reputation:91 Level:All-Star Since:Apr 22, 2008
	November 8, 2009 7:39 pm Score: 135
	I am not a Nick Punto fan, far from it actually. But he's getting 4.5 million dollars this year, and he won't sit on the bench. That's just the way it is. I'm looking at it this way. If he's our weakest hitter, and he's hitting .250 and getting on base 1 out of every 3 at bats, we'll be alright. We need to address 3B and we need to get a solid SP or two. We have some trade chips in Liriano, Bonsor, and Perkins. I know we won't get alot for any one of those, but in a package, it might get a decent third basemen or an alright SP. I think we need to keep Carl Pavano or go after Erik Bedard is he's cheap. I'm not extremely happy with our second base situation, I'm just a realist. Nick Punto is making almost 5 million dollars this year. Nick Punto will start. Why can't we focus on positions that will actually be addressed? Like third base, because I guarantee you something will be done to try to make us better there.
	In Reply To... · Reply · Permalink

- Address the Position: Second Base

Johnny Balls Reputation:98 Level:Superstar Since:Apr 10, 2008
	November 9, 2009 8:28 am Score: 130
	My "Make or break" argument is not a joke. I understand that we could upgrade at second base, but unless we're talking about signing Soriano or Utley or some other All-Star then I don't really see the second base position as being that pivotal. Why focus on Punto who is signed for one more year, plays a good second base, works the count in the nine hole, hustles and is a Twins type of player who does things the Twins way? Why not focus on third base? There's your make or break postion. If you get a decent guy in there who is right-handed, hits for some power and plays good defense, it would indeed be very pivotal to the Twins chances of going further in the playoffs. Miller, you don't like the "Make or break" argument because you think we could upgrade at second. Well, couldn't we upgrade in just about every position besides 1st and catcher? We could get Zimmerman at third, Rivera for our closer, etc. I guess what I'm saying is that we are pretty much set at everything except third base and a SP or two, why are we still talking about second base when Punto is signed there for one more year and nobody is going to want to eat his contract somewhere else in a trade? Doesn't make any sense to me.
	See Replies · In Reply To... · Reply · Permalink

- Address the Position: Second Base

BrainerdBoy Reputation:99 Level:Superstar Since:Dec 14, 2007
	November 9, 2009 12:01 pm Score: 173
	Zimmerman signed a five year, $45 million contract with the Nationals through the 2013 season. He's the face of the Nationals, i.e. not gonna happen. In another thread I mentioned that the Royals were looking for a catcher and were willing to part with Alberto Callaspo. That's a direction to be investigated... Along with Florida's Dan Uggla... sure he strikes out a lot and his D isn't the best, but when he makes contact the ball flies. Let's face it, the Twins know that with the new stadium, the team speed is going to be less of an issue. The Twins will need to focus more on quality at-bats and a little more power instead of the traditional small-ball ways of the Metrodome. I think it's evident in the trade of Gomez for Hardy. Sure GoGo was fast, but even on turf he couldn't steal bags on a consistant level, much less get on base to have a chance. Back to third base, if they want to shore it up they will tell Cuddy to dig out his old glove and take some infield... I know in the past Gardy has said he asked Cuddyer if he wanted to try 3rd base again and he said no. I think it's a situation where the manager needs to do what's best for the team and tell Cuddy that's where he's gonna play because that's what's best for the team.
	See Replies · In Reply To... · Reply · Permalink

- Address the Position: Second Base

airhole27 Reputation:94 Level:All-Star Since:Oct 5, 2007
	November 9, 2009 3:58 pm Score: 116
	Really, let's not revisit the trainwreck that was Cuddyer at third base. I like the idea of trading for Dan Uggla...as long as you don't mind sacrificing a little defense for 30 HR's and 90 RBI's. Then you could shift Punto over to 3B and let him platoon with Valencia. I've mentioned this stat before, but to all of the Punto haters: Avg in odd years: .225 Avg in even years: .283 Plus he's in a contract year (Twins have an option for '11...so basically the same thing). I think Punto will be fine, as long as he keeps his head up rounding third base.
	In Reply To... · Reply · Permalink