George Kokinis out

Pete,

All I have to say is this... I am from Cleveland and we deserve everything we are receiving right now....   When Cleveland wanted a team way back when, we had a chance to bring the Minnesota Vikings and their players to Cleveland. The Fans and City officials didn't want to do what Baltimore did Cleveland and Indianapolis did to Baltimore earlier. The NFL is big business as much as it is a professional sporting event. City officials should stick to politics... Oh, wait... They cannot even do that here in Cleveland. (jab to the ribs)

My point is, is that it is hard to start from the ground up... You get to draft every other team's garbage or overpriced players at the end of their careers or one career that never got started based on skills....

To tell you the truth I would have loved watching the Minnesota Vikings for the last 8 years as the Cleveland Browns. Instead, we have gone through how many coaches, GM's and QB's.

I really don't know who in the hell would want to come to the Arizona Cardinals (prior to 2005) of the east. This team is a joke and I really could care less about them.   I attented the game against the Bengals... Clearly the best game they played this season and I was cheering for the Bengals because I had the Cincy Defense and Cedric Benson as my RB in fantasty football. I used to be a die-hard Browns fan, but when they left it kind of left a bitter taste in my mouth. I got by playing fantasy football and really looked forward to watching other city's teams play instead of the Browns. Now, every week I get stuck with a Browns game on 1 station and sometimes no other alternative on Fox due to NFL rules. I fall asleep most of the time with how boring and awful they are. These are professionals and I swear some college teams could keep up with them.

In closing, I just wanted to state that the hasty move to bring in Manginie may have been the problem. I really think that Bernie Kosar is in the ear of Learner and that is why Kokinis is out. Manginie may survive the season, but I believe that Kosar will also banish anyone assosiated with Bill Belicheck. Meaning See You Later Eric....

Next year is a total rebuilding year obviously.... We have picks and multiples in the 2nd and 3rd rounds... and a high number 1. Right now the Browns offense is dreadful. Imagine if they drafted Clay Mathews at 13 then came back with Malaluga in the 2nd round. The offense would still be dreadful, but our LB's would have improved dramatically thus making the defense better. We still would have a high draft pick because I doubt our record would be better with those 2 defenders....   Next year, they draft Taylor Mays in Round 1... and with the Injury to Bradford, he could fall.   But imagine that defense with Malaluga, Mathews and Mays.... You would be set for 8 years on defense if no injuries occure. Then you can work on your offense, but with that defense all you would need is a QB to manage the game alla Kerry Collins, or a simular QB.

I just think this Kokinis guy messed up, he went WR instead of defense. We knew we were not going to be good this year, why didn't he go defense and try to keep the games low scoring so a punt return or kick return could possibly give the Browns the game. You saw in Buffalo what a defensive crappy game it was and they both suck.... If you had a shut down defense... 3 feildgoals could win you a game. After the defense is shored up.... Go get your offence.... You saw what Pittsburgh and Baltimore have done... Why did Kokinis go away from what he was known for... His WR's have always sucked in Baltimore.... Why did he think he would be able to evaluate WR talent now in Cleveland when he couldn't in Baltimore other than Ozzie Brining in Mason.

This is just a joke and I am an average 40 year old man that knows nothing about the game of football, never played, doesn't understand the the X and O's.... but I can sit back and see the talent that should have been drafted and see the plan that should have taken place. I guess sometimes you need to step away and look in from an amateurs point of view that has a little knowledge of how to build something successful.

Hopefully, Bernie can get something done! He saved this franchise once before... See if he can be as smart off the field as he was on it. Of course I am talking about football and not lending all of his friends money....

Dude, you abviously have no idea whats going on with the Browns. Kokinis was hired after Mangini(I know thats stupid, but true). The other thing is the Browns were 12 million dollars UNDER the cap. How do you expect them to sign a top 5 pick and the rest of their draft picks with 12 million dollars. Thats why they traded Winslow and tried to trade Edwards in the off season to free some space. Those 2 guys had one year left on their contract and made good money. Therefor the Browns wouldnt take a cap hit the following year, like they did with Bentley, Baxter and Jerovicous this year. All high paid players they had to payout their contracts to. And why keep Edwards by the way? He is a hack. They aren't going anywhere and they arent going to resign him next year.

The problem on this team is mainly Savages fault. First he resigns the old washed up Lewis to a big 4 year extention. Then he signs that overrated Stallworth for 8 million dollars. The biggest mistake was resigning Corey Williams to a 7 million dollar deal. Then he trades a first round pick and drafts Quinn. Anybody who thought he was going to be anything more than a backup QB should stop watching football. All these things plus the career ending injuries of Bentley, Jerovicous and Baxter have put the Browns in cap trouble, which is not Manginis fault. He had to put a team on the field with holes everywhere and no money to spend. Getting those former Jets and drafting Mack was smart considering the situation. Look I understand you hate the Browns( I do to, right now), but to even consider that Lerner is going to fire Mangini after a half a year is absurd.

im2gud Reputation: 98 Level: Superstar Since: Aug 22, 2006	Posted on: November 2, 2009 8:36 pm Score: 118 George Kokinis out He should be blamed for hiring Mangini and bringing in all these Jets players that were marginal in New York and even worse in Cleveland...Edwards for Stuckey ? It doesn't matter that Edwards didn't have a qb to get him the ball so they get rid of him...Browns have top ten draft picks and they trade down to draft a center and accumulate 4th round players?? Im so glad Pittsburgh isn't ran like this team...Cleveland will never win anything because no free agents will ever want to play in the cold of Ohio and have to continually get beat by the Steelers... Next question is does Mangini get fired before or after the Steelers game??? [ Reply to Comment ]
gtar kid Reputation: 98 Level: Superstar Since: Sep 6, 2006	Posted on: November 2, 2009 8:36 pm Score: 122 George Kokinis out Cleveland, you sure you wanted the NFL back? Positive Pete!!! Absolutely positive! Maybe somebody should escort Lerner from the bulding. Right on the money Pete. Absolutely right on the mark. What really bothers me is that they glorify his Father with "AL" on their jerseys like the guy pulled a magic trick to get Cleveland a team back. Sure he had the bread in his back pocket, but trust me, Cleveland was getting a team back. It just so happened that he had robbed enough MBNA cardholders to the point where he was the most "able" to shell out the green quicker than the other potential owners. Then he dies and leaves the organization to his son. Yeah, he's not a snotty rich kid like Snyder, but still has no business being in the football business! I keep telling myself that the football world is cyclical and soon enough the Browns will get back. It's just really tough being a fan living in Cleveland right now. It starts at the top and Lerner must go!!! [ Reply to Comment ]
bigdog2323 Reputation: 99 Level: Superstar Since: Mar 29, 2007	Posted on: November 2, 2009 9:03 pm Score: 66 George Kokinis out Wait, Mangini wasn't the GM? [ Reply to Comment ]
NapalmXv3 Reputation: 98 Level: Superstar Since: Nov 6, 2006	Posted on: November 2, 2009 9:06 pm Score: 106 George Kokinis out What a disaster this team is right now. They can't score, they can't win, they can't get any love from the hometown fans. [this is Napalm's gf] Coming from a Cleveland fan family (my grandma has been a fan since '46 and has watched every game since!) I have to say that Cleveland loves the Browns. Look in the stands at the games and see the devoted fans. Yes we really have no hope in winning, especially to great teams like the Steelers, but we love them anyway. [ Reply to Comment ]
NapalmXv3 Reputation: 98 Level: Superstar Since: Nov 6, 2006	Posted on: November 2, 2009 9:09 pm Score: 56 George Kokinis out Nope. Head Coach. [ Reply to Comment ]
TheFire Reputation: 96 Level: Superstar Since: May 25, 2009	Posted on: November 2, 2009 9:17 pm Score: 131 George Kokinis out Pete, All I have to say is this... I am from Cleveland and we deserve everything we are receiving right now.... When Cleveland wanted a team way back when, we had a chance to bring the Minnesota Vikings and their players to Cleveland. The Fans and City officials didn't want to do what Baltimore did Cleveland and Indianapolis did to Baltimore earlier. The NFL is big business as much as it is a professional sporting event. City officials should stick to politics... Oh, wait... They cannot even do that here in Cleveland. (jab to the ribs) My point is, is that it is hard to start from the ground up... You get to draft every other team's garbage or overpriced players at the end of their careers or one career that never got started based on skills.... To tell you the truth I would have loved watching the Minnesota Vikings for the last 8 years as the Cleveland Browns. Instead, we have gone through how many coaches, GM's and QB's. I really don't know who in the hell would want to come to the Arizona Cardinals (prior to 2005) of the east. This team is a joke and I really could care less about them. I attented the game against the Bengals... Clearly the best game they played this season and I was cheering for the Bengals because I had the Cincy Defense and Cedric Benson as my RB in fantasty football. I used to be a die-hard Browns fan, but when they left it kind of left a bitter taste in my mouth. I got by playing fantasy football and really looked forward to watching other city's teams play instead of the Browns. Now, every week I get stuck with a Browns game on 1 station and sometimes no other alternative on Fox due to NFL rules. I fall asleep most of the time with how boring and awful they are. These are professionals and I swear some college teams could keep up with them. In closing, I just wanted to state that the hasty move to bring in Manginie may have been the problem. I really think that Bernie Kosar is in the ear of Learner and that is why Kokinis is out. Manginie may survive the season, but I believe that Kosar will also banish anyone assosiated with Bill Belicheck. Meaning See You Later Eric.... Next year is a total rebuilding year obviously.... We have picks and multiples in the 2nd and 3rd rounds... and a high number 1. Right now the Browns offense is dreadful. Imagine if they drafted Clay Mathews at 13 then came back with Malaluga in the 2nd round. The offense would still be dreadful, but our LB's would have improved dramatically thus making the defense better. We still would have a high draft pick because I doubt our record would be better with those 2 defenders.... Next year, they draft Taylor Mays in Round 1... and with the Injury to Bradford, he could fall. But imagine that defense with Malaluga, Mathews and Mays.... You would be set for 8 years on defense if no injuries occure. Then you can work on your offense, but with that defense all you would need is a QB to manage the game alla Kerry Collins, or a simular QB. I just think this Kokinis guy messed up, he went WR instead of defense. We knew we were not going to be good this year, why didn't he go defense and try to keep the games low scoring so a punt return or kick return could possibly give the Browns the game. You saw in Buffalo what a defensive crappy game it was and they both suck.... If you had a shut down defense... 3 feildgoals could win you a game. After the defense is shored up.... Go get your offence.... You saw what Pittsburgh and Baltimore have done... Why did Kokinis go away from what he was known for... His WR's have always sucked in Baltimore.... Why did he think he would be able to evaluate WR talent now in Cleveland when he couldn't in Baltimore other than Ozzie Brining in Mason. This is just a joke and I am an average 40 year old man that knows nothing about the game of football, never played, doesn't understand the the X and O's.... but I can sit back and see the talent that should have been drafted and see the plan that should have taken place. I guess sometimes you need to step away and look in from an amateurs point of view that has a little knowledge of how to build something successful. Hopefully, Bernie can get something done! He saved this franchise once before... See if he can be as smart off the field as he was on it. Of course I am talking about football and not lending all of his friends money.... [ Reply to Comment ]
florida75 Reputation: 0 Level: Amateur Since: Nov 7, 2007	Posted on: November 2, 2009 9:23 pm Score: 15 George Kokinis out Who's worse the Browns,Rams,Chiefs,Raiders or the Bucs? The sad thing is its going to get worse need year without a salary cap or salary floor. [ Reply to Comment ]
GKMKILLER Reputation: 88 Level: All-Star Since: Nov 30, 2007	Posted on: November 2, 2009 9:28 pm Score: 123 George Kokinis out Mangini actually selected Kokinis to be GM after Lerner hired Mangini as coach. Obviously, the trades that the Browns made were initiated by Mangini in order to bring in players from the Jets with whom he was familiar. On the outside, it certainly appears that the Browns should have gotten much more for the pick that turned out to be Sanchez and also for Braylon Edwards. I think that certainly is as much Mangini's fault as it is Kokinis'. Mangini never should have been hired. His handling of the Browns QB situation has mystified even the casual observers. This team is a mess and that is the responsibility of Lerner. [ Reply to Comment ]
kronck Reputation: 49 Level: Rookie Since: Sep 3, 2008	Posted on: November 2, 2009 9:33 pm Score: 159 George Kokinis out I'm watching the game Saints game tonight and thinking that at one time both they and the Falcons had horrid years in the recent past. How did they recover? Smart drafting and STARTING free agent pick ups. Stuckey? Good God you're right. And as much of a mouth that K2 was, he at least went up for the ball in the middle and came down with it. I do disagree with the cold comment. Its cold in Chicago and Green Bay and they can get FA. If the Browns put together some wins and had a franchise to be proud of, like the Bears and Packers, FA would come here too. Money talks too of course. [ Reply to Comment ]
Nagz48 Reputation: 95 Level: Superstar Since: Mar 8, 2008	Posted on: November 2, 2009 9:36 pm Score: 136 George Kokinis out Dude, you abviously have no idea whats going on with the Browns. Kokinis was hired after Mangini(I know thats stupid, but true). The other thing is the Browns were 12 million dollars UNDER the cap. How do you expect them to sign a top 5 pick and the rest of their draft picks with 12 million dollars. Thats why they traded Winslow and tried to trade Edwards in the off season to free some space. Those 2 guys had one year left on their contract and made good money. Therefor the Browns wouldnt take a cap hit the following year, like they did with Bentley, Baxter and Jerovicous this year. All high paid players they had to payout their contracts to. And why keep Edwards by the way? He is a hack. They aren't going anywhere and they arent going to resign him next year. The problem on this team is mainly Savages fault. First he resigns the old washed up Lewis to a big 4 year extention. Then he signs that overrated Stallworth for 8 million dollars. The biggest mistake was resigning Corey Williams to a 7 million dollar deal. Then he trades a first round pick and drafts Quinn. Anybody who thought he was going to be anything more than a backup QB should stop watching football. All these things plus the career ending injuries of Bentley, Jerovicous and Baxter have put the Browns in cap trouble, which is not Manginis fault. He had to put a team on the field with holes everywhere and no money to spend. Getting those former Jets and drafting Mack was smart considering the situation. Look I understand you hate the Browns( I do to, right now), but to even consider that Lerner is going to fire Mangini after a half a year is absurd. [ Reply to Comment ]

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